Hi Carmen,

I got an email from Joe offering his lists. I hope you don't mind me highlighting this passage from his email:

"Trust me, I've used some really clever (and sometimes devious, but always ethical) tactics to locate the names and email addresses in my databases."

"Trust me"... erm.. NEVER!
"Clever"... erm.. No - Stupid!
"Devious"... erm.. Too right!
"Ethical".. erm.. No in a million years!

Joe - 30 days from Success to down the toilet.

Take care

John
aka "Test and Track guy ;)

You know John, I'm almost positive I replied to your comment yesterday... and it's no longer here.

Anyway, it's a shame he chose to take this path... with so many people who were there to help him reach heights with little effort, time, and money of his own.

He had potential... oh well, coulda woulda shoulda... there's really nothing else Joe can sell to *this* market, I guess.

: )

Hi folks,

Yes, it's a real shame he's chosen to do this. But then, his post at the Warrior forum implied that he didn't actually realize it was wrong.

If this is true, then I would put this latest action down to simple naievity (sp?) - some people just don't "get" that an email address is a private piece of information in the same way that credit card details are.

I've been watching all of this as an impartial observer, because I was never involved with his products as a contributor or an affiliate. (I did offer him a joint venture once, but he politely declined because he was already involved with plenty.)

I too, feel a sense of sadness that all this has happened. Joe was a very smart lad in getting so many gurus to help him, and then promoting it so quickly. Unfortunately, I don't think he was equipped to handle that success as quickly as he did. His style of picking fights was pretty dangerous, especially against such heavyweights as Gary Halbert.

(Viral marketing can work in negative ways, too!)

Hi Paul,

Maybe he's caught up in a downward spiral... one of those things where you're moving so fast towards one direction (down), that it's very difficult to jump out.

It's obvious Joe feels he's been badly hurt by the *previous* incident. I have a 19 year old sister, and I know if she believes she's been attacked, would react the same way - tell all her friends about the nasty person and convince them to take her side. In this case, Joe turned to his lists - which was a very bad idea, but we're all entitled to make our mistakes - right? The trick is, to actually *learn* from them.

As far as the e-mail lists...

I think Joe knows better than to begin selling his databases of contacts. He's a very intelligent young man... he can't honestly believe that what he was doing is comparable to selling access to the Directory of Ezines.

He flat out said that he attributes most of his success to the "databases... simple notepad files", when in fact, his success was due to the *individuals* who've helped him get to where he was. Where's the gratitude? He's only focusing on the dollar signs.

He said himself, "these databases are priceless insider information"... and he's absolutely right! He has to guard and *treasure* the relationships he's built with these *individuals* (not just text files) who one way or another earned him $120,000 within 6 short months.

And on top of that, he instructs others to "use" these people to do all the work for them for easy money? Talk about putting salt on the wound.

Like my husband always says during our puppy-feeding time, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you!"

Isn't this the same Joe Kumar who was supposidly in a bus accident and was seriously hurt?

Isn't this guy 18-years old?

I'm sorry, but Joe Kumar sounds both unethical and with the maturity typical of a teenager. As much as we might want to believe it, there ain't very many Doogie Housers in the world. For real! ;-)

It is a shame, though, when someone who appears to have both promise and ethics wanders over to the dark side. Especially on the Internet when it's so hard to tell ahead of time.

It looks like this young man just dug his online grave. Hope he's able to live the rest of his life off of that $120,000 because that's about all he's likely to get.

Hey there, Carmen! :o)

I missed the entire 'forum' show that went on, and not being involved in his product at all, I didn't receive the mail that Joe sent out announcing the sale of his list.

I'm here to make a comment about YOU. As a mentor to many, like yourself, I admire the fact that you had the guts to address this issue. After all, people that realize success, and promote that fact like Joe did... well, like it or not, many see them as role models.

It's people like you that make sure to tell as many as possible that this type of behavior that Joe's displaying is simply NOT acceptable. I sometimes get tired of preaching 'ethics', but darn it, somebody has to, ya know? LOL

Anyway, thanks for fighting the good fight. It's a fine line we walk some days... we don't want to 'bash' peers and fellow Internet personalities, but hey, if the shoe fits, right?

NOT that I think you were bashing in any way, you weren't. You're much better at being diplomatic than I am! LOL I've just noticed like, EVERY online personality lately commenting on 'forum bashing'.

We need to think of a term for just telling the plain ol' truth... don'tcha think? I know I'd rather make sure that my readers know the real deal, than worry about whether or not what I'm saying would be considered 'bashing'.

Great entry, Carmen. Turn it into an article, and I'll be the first to request reprint permission. (hint) ;o)

Oh... I figured out my blogroll, you're listed on my blog as a linking partner, and I couldn't be prouder, thanks! Talk soon?!

~Ginger

Hi Fontaine,

Yes, that's him. Joe's very young, but, all those times we exhanged e-mails, he was always very polite and professional. But, the boogie-man somehow got the best of him, I guess.

It's never too late to learn and improve. Please, Joe... learn from this and don't make the same mistakes again.

Hi Ginger,

I'm so happy to have you here! Thanks for blogrolling me : )

YOU'RE RIGHT... when you take on subscribers, customers, and clients, you accept responsibility to keep them informed and armed with the truth. Even if it means disagreeing with your peers. Besides, if *we* don't preach ethics (uhem - MNM), who will, right?!! I appreciate the support : )

Hey, maybe this can be my first article I submit to you - LOL! And if you can come up with the appropriate marketing lingo for 'telling the plain ol' truth', remember to share!!

Chat with you later!

Aloha Carmen,

Another of the Mark Joyner disciple impales himself upon his own sword...

Aloha,

Jason

I got Joe Kumar's "flame" email a few weeks back, as well as his offer to sell his email list database and every other one of his attempts to flog his list.

I agree with the other posters here.

Also, here's a post I just made about Kumar on Alan Gardayne's forum...

"I've found that legitimate Internet marketers willingly offer, and honor, a money-back guarantee for their products.

I've bought lots of information products, and in the rare case where I have to request a refund, it's been made promptly. Also in just about every case I've gone on to buy other products from the authors who refunded my money. Some products just fit me better.

But Joe Kumar is an entirely different matter. I'm not as keen on his books as others seem to be. Fair enough. But when I requested a refund I got a 6-week runaround that still hasn't stopped.

Joe claims that PayPal has frozen his account, and thus he just "can't" issue a refund. Yet at the same time he posts big payout checks from ClickBank and the like, all while flogging his list with other offers.

Sorry, but something's just not right.

I can understand people who are all excited to ride his gravy train on 75% commissions, but my own smaller personal experince with this guy is that he's just a little to slick."

Actually the reason I'm here is because of the "30 days" book. As a newbie marketer, I got lots of great stuff out of both volumes.

However, I am horrified to hear about this. Please tell me he "woke up" and decided not to sell all those addresses!

Personally, I would never buy another thing from him if this follows through to conclusion.

And I hate to me too, but in an Internet full of marketing "gurus", it IS refreshing to see someone who's not afraid to call it like she sees it.

Thanks for the straight talk, Carmen.

ha you think that him selling your info is bad look what he did to these people.

Right now he is wanted by the FBI and some Canada mounted something or other

Check this site out and read the scams Joe has done...
www.bewareofjoekumar.com

It's a shame that Joe went down the wrong path. Prayfully he will get turned around.

It's sad that he got a chance to work with some awesome people then blow it. I would have been grateful to have been in his position.

We will have to pray for him and remember not to condemn. Always looking for a joint venture.